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I friend of mine brought up a very good point that had me thinking:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

--Epicurus

Epicurus makes a very legit statement there and I've felt like this myself sometimes because of the awful things that happen in this world.

I've given it a lot of thought and prayer and my answer to Epicurus would be:

God is able to prevent evil but doesn't because of our free will. Everything evil that is happening among us is driven by human choices small and large. In short, it's our fault. Evil cannot work unless we facilitate it by breaking God's Law. We cause harm to ourselves, others, or become the victim of someone else's sin in the process.

Remember we went through the 10 Commandments [link] and found ourselves guilty? His standard is perfection so breaking one is like breaking all of them as we need to be spotless to exist in his presence. If he were to eliminate evil, he would have to kill us all right now (which he doesn't want to do as he'd rather have us repent).

It only takes a moment to knock something over and a long time to put the pieces back together. It's a delicate operation unless we want him to neatly wipe us out with another Great Flood.

Ever read that parable about the wheat and tares/weeds?[link] It further expounds on this delicate concern. If God were to pull up and burn all the weeds now, some wheat would get tangled up and burned in the process.  There are people who are weeds right now but it is destined that God will save them and turn them into wheat.

It's also a matter of legality. Spiritual systems in the Bible are remarkably legal. If you read Genesis, you'll see God gave man dominion over the planet. By deceiving the first parents, Satan practically stole the deed to the planet which is why he is now called the"god of this world" or the "prince of the air". But he got it legally because he got Adam and Even to agree to his lies. It's like signing a contract from a fast-talking con man and not reading the fine print.

To this day, Satan cannot steal, kill and destroy in the physical realm unless he gets us to agree to it. In that same vein, God urges us to pray so that his will can be made manifest on the earth.  That is our realm of legal dominion and the things we say yes and no to are very powerful. What we lost in Eden is our connection with God so now we are by default born in iniquity instead of righteousness.

God is the Originator of law, so he won't overturn that contract as humanity consented to it. But he was able to make a loophole by living a sinless human  life, taking our punishment and then resurrecting as Jesus, fulfilling the law and making a way out of this binding system. Now the only way to get out of that contract is to die to sin and resurrect in Christ.

So 3 factors Epicurus would have to consider is God's perfect standard (10 Commandments), free will, and the legality of man's dominion.

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October 9, 2011
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:iconsageoftalos:
Hope you don't mind if I use your argument here. I will give credit where credit is due of course.
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:iconnerdiboy:
Your article is an example of theodicy, or an attempt to explain God's goodness, to see if, instead of it being his fault, it is instead our fault, because what constitutes our idea of good, is not his idea of good.
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:icontazi-san:
*Tazi-san Jan 13, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
:nod:
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:iconbaekhesten:
~Baekhesten Nov 6, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
I've heard both of these arguments from both sides multiple times—I'm currently in the process of researching Christianity in Atheism, as I'm not sure where I stand right now.

Here's something I haven't seen answered yet, and I'm wondering what you'd have to say on the subject.

Why can't God influence us? Why can't he make it in our nature to want to do good—while still giving us the choice to do evil? Christians say that wouldn't really be free will. But we don't have completely free will as it is.

We have a very strong sense of self-preservation. If you put your hand to a hot stove, you'll almost immediately draw it back, without even thinking. There's no choice or free will there. Sure, you could keep yourself from doing it if you wanted, but it'd be difficult and not your first instinct.

Why can't our first instinct be to do good to others? Why self-preservation but not others-preservation? And why didn't God create us with the ability to better recognize evil; why didn't he give us the ability to see through lies? Why does he let abused children believe what's being done to them is good? It wouldn't be taking anyone's free will away to give them an innate knowledge of good and evil. But as it is it's just this "sometimes-maybe-kind-of-feeling-something's wrong" and often not even that. Why can't we just know? Why can't our choices be clear? Why does he make it so convoluted and hazy?

I'm sorry, that was probably a little ranty. But they're questions no one seems to be able to answer except atheists, and honestly they're looking more and more like the truth to me. I still want to give Christianity a chance, though—so could you tell me what you think of those questions?
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:iconpergamum:
Nicely said Tazi,
Something else to support your "Satan has the deed" argument. When Yeshua was tempted Satan offered Him "all the kingdoms of the earth" to bow to him. Oddly enough Yeshua did NOT contest Satan's claim of ownership, or right to offer it.
Also, another reason YHVH will not put an end to evil, as it were, just yet is because He is "not a man that He should lie". His word says He "declared the end from the beginning", or to put it into a more specific context "in the time of the beginning He declared what would happen in the end". All that is written in His word either has happened or WILL happen (in our linear way of looking at Time) because it has already happened in HIS way of looking at Time. He will make an end to sin and the heavens and the earth will be destroyed again by fire, because His word tells us. It will however happen in His time and in accordance with everything in His word. So for doubters that try to disprove God because of the existence of "Evil"... if evil were simply blinked out of existence by YHVH then His word would be rendered false. His word never returns void and He is not a man that He should lie so inasmuch of a circular argument that may seem for some, the fact that His word keeps coming true every time you look at the news should give you the extra nugget to chew on.
:D
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:icontazi-san:
*Tazi-san Oct 29, 2011  Professional Digital Artist
Good point on not contesting ownership and declaring the end from the beginning.

Another thing people use is because people die, it gives emotional basis for God's nonexistence. I contest that death is not the worst thing that can happen to you :-) I know I'm going to die eventually, tomorrow or sometime in the future. But Jesus turned my death into something good rather than bad. "Though we die, we live."

Also, my mom laments quite often how many wicked people seem rich and content but I remind her that God said not to envy such people. Celebrity news will tell how many of them are on drugs, suicide, and how they practically self-destruct from their life of lavish emptiness. Not that that's the case will all, just the ones that worship their wealth.

I parallel is by comparing the Ark and the Titanic. This world is a sinking Titanic and Jesus is the Ark when the flood of Judgement comes at the Last Day.
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:iconraphies-mine:
~Raphies-mine Oct 22, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I can tell you have really thought this one out. I've always had a similar thought to the question of why God lets bad things happen, but I could never get a full explanation into words. Somehow you have, I hope you don't mind if I use some of those words to answer that question if and when I am ever asked it again.
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:icontazi-san:
*Tazi-san Oct 29, 2011  Professional Digital Artist
No problem and thank you. My answer isn't flawless of course but I hope it encourages further meditation and study on the subject because it is really important.
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:iconraphies-mine:
~Raphies-mine Nov 5, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
too true. Its a difficult one to answer. Blind faith is all we really have to rely on sometimes, but it makes God so much more amazing that way.
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:icontazi-san:
*Tazi-san Nov 14, 2011  Professional Digital Artist
True. I'm at a point in my life where it's been up and down and nothing I do on my own is working at the moment. It's been very depressing and anxious at times and I'm going to have to totally depend on him here for guidance.
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